Transcript

Enda Brady: Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us. I’m Enda Brady, Certified Financial Planner and co-owner of iQ Financial with my brother Coman. You’re very welcome. Today’s session is called, How to Build, Scale, and Sustain a Family Business, Lessons from Michael O’Hehir on growing O’Hehirs from a single bakery into a 450-person hospitality group.

We’re delighted to be joined by Michael O’Hehir, co-founder of O’Hehirs in Sligo. Over the next 45 minutes, we’ll walk through the O’Hehirs story, the key lessons learned along the way, and aim to give you something practical you can take back to your own business. Before we start, just a bit of housekeeping to help things run smoothly. I’ll hand you over to Maria Devine, our Senior Financial Planning Administrator and Office Manager here at iQ Financial.

Maria Devine: Hello, my job today is to keep things running smoothly, and I’ll also be reading out any questions you may ask. The way you can get involved is by clicking on the Q&A button on your screen, where you can type your questions, and to let you know that the questions and comments you write in the Q&A are not visible to everybody, only the presenters and myself can see them, and we’ll read them out at the end. And you can also choose to submit your questions anonymously. Also, the presenters can see the full list of attendees, but other attendees can’t see each other’s names. Comments in the chat are visible to everybody.

So, we’ll answer questions at the end. We want to have everyone have their questions answered, and I’ll put a couple of links in the chat to our iQ Financial website, where you can access our guides for business owners, where you can sign up for our monthly newsletter for business owners. And after the webinar, we will send a follow-up email with a recording of this session, the slides, and links to our guides for business owners. So if you miss anything the first time around, you can catch up later. Now, I’ll hand back to Enda to get started.

Enda Brady: Maria, we should probably just, remind attendees there that, apart from Mickey himself, if you could put your Zoom on mute, please, apart from Michael, we have to hear what Michael has to say. We have a whole load of Michael O’Hehirs joined us, because Michael’s co-host link has gone around to the whole O’Hehirs team, which is a good thing. But if you can keep your audio on mute, guys, but not Michael’s, that would be fantastic.

Thanks, folks. Just very quickly, for those who may not know us, at iQ Financial, we provide financial planning and investment management to business owners and professionals. We work with owners who want to sell, retire, or make work optional in the next 5 to 10 years. We look at your overall financial situation and help you make the most of your finances personally. From there, we help you plan for retirement, reduce taxes, provide for your family, and invest wisely. If you’d like to learn more, www.iqf.ie is the best place to start. We’ll share contact details again before we finish.

Michael, you’re very welcome. I know you’ve a lot going on, so we really appreciate you taking the time to join us. It’s great to have you, and for anyone who may not know you, or know the background, will you briefly just, just, we might start with, how did O’Hehirs get going originally, and what’s the makeup of the business like today?

Michael O’Hehir: Okay, yeah, good morning, everybody. I suppose I was thinking, where do I start this story? So it has to start with my mother and father, especially my mother, because we didn’t, I suppose, pull this out of the sky, the idea of starting a bakery. My mother was, she had done her apprenticeship in bakery confectionery. She had trained for 4 years, so she was a good baker-confectioner, and that’s where the idea of the bakery came out of. 

So, I come from a family of 13 children. There’s 6 boys and 7 girls, and I suppose, at that time, mothers didn’t work outside the home, so she was baking for a local shop, Jim Owens, Pick and Choose. If anybody doesn’t know that, that would be a local shop to where we lived. And, she did a few products there for a couple of years, as an income to support the family. So, she stopped at, I’d say, maybe a year or two before I left Summerhill. So, when I left Summerhill, who did I go working for but, Jim Owens in the local shop. So he said to me, you should go back into the bakery business. There’s a big niche for it in Sligo. So, of course, I went home to my mother and father. I was only 19 at the time. I suggested it to them, so they said, okay. And, so from there, we did up a garage room out the back where we built a small little bakery and we took it from there. That was around 1984. So, my father actually retired that year as well. He was the CIE man, he worked in the buses and the trains. 

So, anyway, so we started in ‘84, it was just myself and herself, really. We did a lot of local shops, so I can still remember that first week, really, because we worked so hard on the lead in and then we got out on the road, there’s a small little blue van, and I remember my brother Hugh, he’s next to me. Myself and Huey went out on the road for the first delivery. So I can still remember the first call, it was Pick and Choose the corner shop, it was up to Murray’s, and a lot of people from Sligo would know this, Jerry and Marie Murray, then on to Michael Owens in Carraroe, back into Conway’s. So that was our business, it was just a small little  wholesale business.

Soon after we started, my brother Enda, he’s younger than me, he left school, and he got involved in the business, and he’s still involved, so the two of us are still there running the business today. So, anyway, that went on for a few years, and I have to say, because I have to mention all of my brothers and sisters, I mean, they were hugely helpful at the start. And, the younger ones, Lorna and Irene and Carl, they all, whatever they did, they helped us with the cleaning, they peeled apples, they did everything. So it was a real family setup.

So, we move on then, and we did that for about 2 or 3 years out to Strandhill Road, and what we thought was a big game changer was moving into Wine Street in Sligo. So, that was our first retail shop, and for anybody that’s in business, I suppose, you know, having your own shop gives you that increased profit and margin. So, it was really big for us to be able to move into Wine Street.

And just to go back a step,  when we set up this business, like, there was no such thing as, you know, budgets, or forecasts, or mission statement, or anything like that, right? That you would do today. So, it was just give it a try, see how it will go. It’s not that we didn’t know the costs, we did. 

Enda Brady: I know, you had no KPIs!

Michael O’Hehir: Yeah, no.  So it was just the three of us, myself, Enda and my mother at that stage, and a lot of help from a lot of family. Then we got the opportunity, like I said, going into Wine Street, and we built what we thought was a big bakery at the back of it, and it was maybe three times the size of what we had. And at that time as well, we got in new people to help us, probably better bakers than we were, so they were able to train us in different techniques and that. And, they were all so, like, and you’ll hear me through the rest of the conversation, is we’re getting better people in than ourselves to grow the business, like, and that’s the only way. We’ve done it from the very start. 

But when we went into Wine Street, my sister Jacqueline joined the business then, and she ran the retail, and she did that for many years after, a lot of retail shops. Eddie and Jim came back, and they were doing the wholesale business, where myself and Enda stayed on the ground in the bakery. So, again, it was a real family business. So that continued. At that stage, then we were able to do, probably, wholesale outside of, Sligo Town and do the county. We had the shop as well, which was great. 

Now, I have to say again, and I won’t mention the family again, but at that stage, it was ‘88, right? And we wouldn’t have that much money. The banks weren’t really giving out money. We’d started the business with, I think, about 4000, right? 5,000. We moved into Wine Street, we couldn’t borrow all the money, so all my older sisters, Mary, Connie, Jan, Colette, they all give us money to get started. So, again, it was really family, and I have to thank them all for that. But anyway, to move on.

Enda Brady:  So, tell me, Michael, so, if you’re tuning in here, one of the things that really attracted us to trying to get you to share, you know, your story is the different elements of where that business went to. So, you have manufacturing with the bakery, you call it retail there when Jackie came in, you  have a number of cafes now, you have 12 or 13 cafes is it now? So you have the retail, you have the manufacturing with the bakery, you have a hotel business with the Glasshouse Hotel, which, again, is another different type of a business. You have food service business through the university in Sligo here, running the food through the restaurant there. So, am I right that the biggest step to allow you to expand into different sort of channels or different types of business was the move to Cleveragh and the bigger bakery in Cleveragh at the time? Was that kind of the next big milestone after the ‘80s?

Michael O’Hehir: Yeah, absolutely. So, in around ‘94, ‘95, we got the opportunity of taking, the unit in Cleveragh. I think it was an old, factory. So, we got it, we bought it out fully.  And when I talk about game changers, that was it, really. Like, we thought we were moving into a factory the size of a football pitch, really. So we had loads and loads of space, employing more people,. Like, there was no end to the business, and like you said, from there, we actually took over another bakery in Letterkenny, which was a production bakery, a shop, and a retailer, and I’ll tell a good story about that in a while, but that was good, because we got good experience from that.

And from there, we went to Galway. Another good story, we took over some shops in Galway, and from there into, Mayo. So the business was growing rapidly in them years. So by 2000  we had maybe 14 or 15 units, right?

Enda Brady: That’s 14 or 15 cafés around the West or Northwest?

Michael O’Hehir: That’s right. And then, we increased that again, and we moved into the Midlands, which was Athlone, Longford and Mullingar. So, we had a good scope. The stuff is produced and baked in Sligo during the night and the daytime, and then it’s pushed out in trucks, leaving the bakery at 12 o’clock at night onwards. But while we were doing all that, we bought some and got involved in some convenience store Spar shops. So we had a couple of them as well, in around the 2000 mark, right? We had 3 of them. So, like you said, the game changer was Cleveragh, right? So, we were able to expand fully from there. In around 2007, we got involved in the Glasshouse Hotel, and then in around 2010, we got our first contract in ATU Sligo, and today, we’d have a lot of the ATUs in Galway, Mayo, Letterkenny, Sligo. We think there’s big growth in the food service side for us. We do Summerhill College, we do the Sligo Races, so we have a fair spread of the food service side of things. The hotel, and you might ask me, like, how did we get involved in these different businesses? They’re all kind of tied up in the hospitality, the food business-like. Well, the hotel, it would be different, but I can get to that in a while. But anyway.

So, today, we’d have about, maybe, the same 14/15 shops. We have about 11 or 12 units in the ATUs and food service.  And the hotel.  And the bakery is divided up into retail and wholesale.

Enda Brady: Tell me, Mickey, so one of the things that, when we were talking in advance of this, when you have different types of businesses and you have a number of irons in the fire, just from a lesson that could be taken into any other business. Would I be right to say that yourself and Enda are the two main leaders that run the businesses on a day-to-day basis? And how do you divide up roles? How do you meet, how do you manage things, and how does that work between the two of you?

Michael O’Hehir: You know, first of all, I just wanted to mention, like, the team of people we have, it’s very important. We couldn’t do it, and Enda would agree with me, we couldn’t do it without all the good people that work for us, right? From the senior team right down to the people on the floor, it’s so important, the difference that makes to any business. So, if we didn’t have them, like, Carmel Murphy, Cara, Alan, all the team, and Vanessa, and Lorraine, all the team in the Glasshouse, really. They’re great, they run a really good show. 

Then, the overall, kind of, management team, I’d have Tim. Now, Tim is with us, but just to go back for a minute. What’s huge for me, I suppose, is that we celebrated 40 years last year.

And in that 40-year celebration, we did awards to people that have worked with us for so long. There’s people that would have worked with us over 30 years at this stage, 25 years, 20 years, and I’d be proud of that, that we have people that are still with us. And they’re the people that guide us, and they tell us, you know, where we need to go. They see the trends.

And if we want to grow the business any further, it’s getting good people to grow it for us. It won’t be a machine, it won’t be a premises, it’ll be the people that we need. So, what I’m trying to say, it’s all about the people that work with us. So, just to go back to the senior team, and that’s the way we manage it. So, we’d have Seamus Nallen, and it’s a brother-in-law of mine that would run the retail side of it. I have Tim. Tim is the financial director. He would also be a big advisor to the business as well, and he gets it. He knows how a business should run, he runs all the different departments. And then we have the big team of procurement, Tom in procurement, Donna HR, Rosie is in technical.  I’m just trying to think. So we have a really good team, we have Clive in maintenance, the whole firm, so if we hadn’t them people, you know, we wouldn’t be where we are. We have Mark, that covers all the marketing, Mark Henry.

So, they’re the senior, the overall business, but then underneath that, there’s a layer of managers and aerial managers, like Michelle in the Arcade is with us 30 over years. She’s moving into Area Manager now. We like to promote within as well. What I’m trying to put across, it’s all about the people, it’s not just myself and Enda. 

How we go about managing it, I suppose, I manage, really, by walking around, and I’m visiting all the different sites regularly, okay? So you just have to go in, you have to make sure they’re right. It’s more than me that would be checking to know, you know, how displays are right, cleanliness, the background music, the staff, everybody there has to be, you know, right. 

But outside of that, for each unit that we would have, we would set budgets and targets. And we get monthly accounts, but in between that weekly, we get a flash report of each shop, and we’re able to judge it from that, or each unit, if it’s not a shop. Like I said, when we started, we wouldn’t have been at this, you know, but you’re talking about a lot of people now, and a lot of a money changes hands, and a lot of transactions, and we have to be able to track it. So, that’s what the meetings are about, and we run our business like that. So, each unit, monthly accounts, weekly flash reports, and the flash reports I’m talking about would be just basic, sales versus wages, etc…

And the thing we have, usually, sales solves everything, with no problem if we have plenty of sales. So, if anybody wants, that’s the one thing I’ll say, you know?

Enda Brady: Sales solves everything! Mickey, we talked before about if you had to pick them, the best thing that happened to the business in the 41 years, and I suppose we might, on the flip side, talk about the toughest time. But firstly, on, the best thing that happened to the business, if you had to pick one, and the lesson from it?

Michael O’Hehir:  Well, look, if I look back, you know, the best things that were, like, huge at the time, moving into Wine Street. The best thing, moving into Cleveragh, because we were expanding all the time, and, like, we were making loads of mistakes, but we were learning while we were going along, and they weren’t too costly. 

So, taking over the hotel, just a quick story on the hotel. We had a management company. We were told, you know when you borrow big money for a hotel, the banks tell you, go after a management company. We brought in a management company, they’re good people, but they weren’t what we wanted, right? So, we just took a decision at that time that we would go back in and run it ourselves. And, I have to say, since we went back in and run it, I think it was the 11th month after it was open, and remember, it was right at the beginning of the recession, 2007, and I don’t think we ever looked back, you know, when we started running it ourselves.

The food service is good for the company, I think there’s a big scope there, but, like, there’s no end to what the bakery can get into, if you know what I mean. There’s so many different angles.

Enda Brady: So the lesson there, Mickey, is that when you had the scale with the expansion, firstly to Wine Street and then to Cleveragh, it allowed you to go into different areas of hospitality, because you had the scale to actually operate, you know, at a margin with the bread and with the supplies that was going to make it work. On the flip side of that, if you had to pick one, what was the toughest moment or the biggest challenge in that time, and maybe a lesson from it?

Michael O’Hehir: There was loads, right? But, you know, I have to mention, and you always think of things when you’re talking like this, when my brother Eddie passed away, when Enda’s wife, Shirley, passed away, they were huge parts of the business, like, huge. So, they were a big blow. And my mother was still tipping around in her old age in the bakery, so that was a big blow, my father passing away in ‘94 , just when we’re starting to expand. So, I just wanted to mention them. They were big setbacks, do you know what I mean? Because they worked with us day in, day out. 

But anyway, I don’t know where I’d start, the big lessons, and I suppose there was one Christmas that, by accident, we were asked, November, I think, we were asked to take over, a retail business’s shops. They were bakery shops and they were all spread all over the Northwest of Ireland as well. Good company, they went to sell it, the sale went through, they’d let go staff, they were about to let go all their bakers, and they came to me. Of course, I took it on, I thought it was the way to go, right? But it nearly, it nearly killed us. It was just too much. It was bigger than our own business. When I look back on it, I should have just took my time, thought about it. And, maybe I would have said no, but I took it on. We worked night and day, like, that wouldn’t have been a problem, we were working hard anyway. But this was just too much for the whole business. So I had to go back with my tail between my legs, and after Christmas, to the seller and the solicitor and hand them back, but we did get 4 or 5 good shops out of it after, which were in around Galway. That was a big lesson, you know. I should have took my time at it. You know, we should have took our time at it. 

And, look, there’s a lot of other things. You know, the recession, that came in. That was the biggest blow of all, I’d say, the way sales, you know, fell off the shelf. Like, there just was no sales. I remember in one of the shops, in one of the convenience shops, sales dropped in about 10 months by about €500,000. You know, you couldn’t operate, right? It was just so dramatic, the drop in sales, right across the board. And, like, it takes a lot to come through that with a big business. So, we just battened down the hatches, everybody, you know, worked very hard, family members especially, and everybody else. But, we got through it, but one story there, you go to the banks for more, cash flow or overdraft, they wouldn’t do it in 2010 and 11. They hadn’t got it themselves. So, you wonder where you’re going to get it. So, at that stage, we had a lot of suppliers, and they were supplying us for over 20 years, so we had a really good relationship with them. So we took the decision that we might skip a month in paying our suppliers, right? So what I said was, myself and Tim came up with that. We travelled to all their head offices around the country, told them what we were doing, told them how we would catch up and pay for the month we were skipping, and we stuck to that, and we’re still dealing with them companies. But it gave us a great leg up. 

Enda Brady: Very good. That’s a big deal. Maria will give you a reminder after we’ve done a couple more questions, we’ll open it up to questions, and Maria, you can remind them how to do that at that point, but we’ll, we’ll keep going with these couple of questions. Mickey, tell me, just looking forward a bit, right? So, thinking about the next phase of business. So, just tell us about two things. So, you can do a shameless plug about new developments in O’Hehirs, and you can talk to us a little bit about, bringing the children into the business and succession, but there’s a couple of big new developments, that you’re working on, or have started working on, that you might want to share with us.

Michael O’Hehir: I suppose the future plan is, we have a site out in Carraroe, and we’re putting in for planning permission shortly for a brand new bakery. So that will be the third or fourth move of a bakery in 40 years.

Enda Brady: That’s Carraroe in Sligo folks, not Carraroe in Galway. 

Michael O’Hehir: We’re going in for planning maybe in the next fortnight for that, and hopefully we’ll get that. It probably would take maybe 2 or 3 years to build after that, you know? So, that’s for the future. We’re extending the Glasshouse Hotel by 56 rooms, again in Sligo. It has 116 at the minute. We’re giving it another 56, and there’s probably apartments along with that for sale.

And as well as that, I think, and people probably know in Sligo, we’re taking over the hotel in Rosses Point with the Reilly family, so we will be the operators there, so Rosses Point, the Yeats Country Ryan Hotel. So, there’s a lot happening. 

Now, as well as that, in the ATU side of things, we’re tendering for a lot of stuff at the minute, with the hope of getting some of it anyway. So we’re expanding that side of the business, and we’re always working on looking for opportunities in the retail side of it, which is shops. Probably, at this stage, like, the High street and, the main streets of towns are kind of dipping a bit, so it’s better for us, I think for us to get into shopping centres, you know, that’s where the footfall is there, and the wholesale business is growing all the time. We’re looking at, doing more now with, some of the big multiples, like Tesco would be a big customer of ours, SuperValus, Coribbs, a lot of them smaller filling stations are great customers. So we’re going to expand that side of it as well.

Enda Brady: So not much happening then, really, Michael! You’re sort of winding down then, is that it?

Michael O’Hehir: Yeah, well, no. I’ll just go into who’s coming behind, myself and Enda. I got James there, my son. James has worked with us now for, nearly 10 years, and he’s got a huge lot of experience, so he’s running the floor over in, Cleveragh, and a lot of other stuff along with it. My other son, Seán, was traveling there for the last 4 or 5 years. He ended up in Australia all the time working in bakeries.  So he’s bringing back a lot of experience, and he’s back now. And then, of course, we have Fionn, who will be Enda’s son, in the bakery also. He’s, just learning all the bits, and I suppose what myself and Enda decided was that, these three lads would need to know, they’d need to become bakers, first and foremost.  And then, that would give them good grounding, because they all have college degrees and everything else, and they would move on then to running the business someday, right? So we’ve nothing formal, but that’s the way we look at it at the minute.

And Enda has a couple of more, Tara and Ronan, and Ronan is working away, still going to college. And then, of course, my oldest son, Caolán, is in Australia. He got married to Cat there last year, so hopefully they’ll come home in the near future. But there’s no big plans yet. But what we’re doing now is, we’re looking at Grattan Street in Sligo, again, as a new kind of a template of a bakery. So, what the lads have learned over the years, we’re going to try to put in kind of a new brand of a bakery, new kind of setup, maybe not as much product, but a new setup for Gratton Street in Sligo.

Enda Brady: Very good, very good. So, I know you said there,Michael, that, you haven’t every part of it pinned down, but in terms of succession, you’ve identified that, you’re in a good spot there, that the family name will keep going with next generation, and you’re getting them to get experience away from the business, and you’re getting them to get experience at the core part of the business in the Cleveragh bakery now, which is a lesson there that other businesses can take away. 

Just, two other things, I’m conscious it’s half ten, folks. We’re just going to cover two other things before we get into questions for Michael. We’ve talked a bit about the role of advisors that have helped you along the way. How important has that been? How important might it be going forward? Anything you want to share there? 

Michael O’Hehir: Yeah, well, look, I suppose our advisors over the years, would have to be Cathal O’Donnell at Gilroy Gannon. He’s with us from the very start, and still with us.

Enda Brady: They’re an accountancy and audit practice in Sligo.

Michael O’Hehir: Yeah, in Sligo. Also, we have Pat McEnroe Solicitors in Sligo. Pat is retired now, but he gave massive advice to us over the tough years, right? How to mind ourselves, how to mind the business, and it was great just having him. And then, of course, a lot of other people along the way, but I think, Tim, our financial director, is still one of the main advisors to the business, and if we need outside, people, we get them. Do you know what I mean?

It’s all about, look, I listen to the whole team, they all have a lot of knowledge, they have huge years of experience, so it’s about listening to people, I think good communication, and if you need outside professionalism or anything like that, you get it.

Enda Brady: Yeah, that’s, that’s Tim Corcoran, the Financial Director.

Michael O’Hehir: Yes, Financial Director.

Enda Brady: Thanks for that, Mickey. Just finally, before we get into all other questions, one thing that I’ve always admired, looking at your situation, is that, it’s a very interesting business story, there’s various different parts to the business which are really, interesting. But you have

always been a champion for the region, and you’ve always done volunteering, which I always admired. And, I’m a GAA man, but sure, we’ll have to put up with the odd foreign sport. You’ve put a lot of time into rugby, and it ended up with you being the President of Connacht Rugby in 2023. Just tell us a little bit about with the various juggling, how you ended up, being the President of Connacht Rugby, and, and I suppose how you balanced family and work, and getting to that position with Connacht Rugby at the time.

Michael O’Hehir: Yeah, well, look, I want to mention, of course, my wife, Mary, I’d have to mention her. She keeps me on the straight and narrow with this, whatever they like to call it, the work-life balance, you know what I mean? So, she’s very important to the whole setup, and only for her, I wouldn’t have been involved in Connacht Rugby, you know? So, yeah, so the rugby is a big part of my life. And funny enough, Enda, St. Mary’s was a huge part of my life when I was younger.

Enda Brady; good, good, that’s very important. 

Michael O’Hehir: So, and I can talk all day about my younger days in the GAA, which were really positive, it’s a great experience, and a lot of my friends are still there. So, I got very involved. I played senior for St. Mary’s, I played senior for Sligo Rugby Club. So, so I kind of ended up in the rugby club. But anyway, so I did all the different positions in Sligo Rugby Club. And I have to mention it, like, when my three lads were growing up, so they were playing Gaelic, they were playing rugby, but I was a coach for them, I suppose, in the rugby club. And even though we had the heavy weight of the recession in 2010, and it was, and we had a lot of issues, I was able to go out there of a Saturday and Sunday and be at matches, and you’d nearly forget all about 

business, and I think that was a great release for me, and I was giving time to the lads. So, the balance there was really good. So, it was really good for me, health-wise, to be able to release out there. So, Sligo Rugby and coaching and all the different has been very good for me.

So, then I got involved in Connacht. I suppose I started with, competitions, then I went to youth rugby, then I went to senior rugby, and I was actually President then, when they were signing the go-ahead for the new Dexcom stadium and the whole lot. So they were great days in Connacht Rugby. And I don’t know how we did it, because I was up and down the road so many times, but it’s, again, because of the people in the bakery and family looked after me well, allowed me to do it. So, they were a great experience, and didn’t do us a bit of harm, because when you’re in organizations like St. Mary’s, and Sligo Rugby Club, and Connacht Rugby, etc, you meet a lot of interesting people, and you listen to them, and they’re all in different work lives, and it’s always interesting to talk to them.  Do you know what I mean? So, I had nothing but positive, you know, about being involved in the different organizations.

Enda Brady: I think you’ve been a bit modest in all of this, Mickey, from developing the business in the various channels with Enda, and then there’s a serious amount of work in doing that and in getting to be president of Connacht Rugby. I think it’s a fantastic thing to say that, just in general, I certainly would, what you said there really landed in my head, in that if your children are going to the sport, and sometimes you have to drag them to the sport, but if your children are going to the sport, and you’re working in business, you’ll build a new network there that’ll help you in personal and business ways. And you’re doing something very productive for your children, but, you know, also for yourself. So, no, I appreciate that. 

The very final thing, Mickey, if you had to distill it all down, I know I’ve you primed for this one, so I hope it goes well. If you had to distill it down, what’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned from building the business the last 41 years?

Michael O’Hehir: Oh, jeepers. I know we talked about it, but I learned so many lessons, and I got so many things wrong, but I think on balance, not so bad, right? So, I don’t know, really, I suppose it’s to take your time if you’re making the decision not to rush into it. And look, we still get things wrong. I mean, we closed the shop last year because it just I think it’s really, we closed the shop last year because it wasn’t doing well, right? So, I think it’s making decisions quicker. And then just sticking with it, and do it, right? If a thing is going bad. 

If you’re going into something new, I think it’s take your time, get other people’s opinions, weigh it up properly, and usually, it doesn’t go wrong. Do you know what I mean?

Enda Brady: When I was trying to prime you on this one, you said a brilliant phrase to me before. You said that, if you want to go fast…

Michael O’Hehir: Oh, yeah, I have it. “If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.”

Enda Brady: Yeah, that’s fantastic, Mickey. We’re 10.38 here. Maria, we’ll open it up to questions there, maybe starting with, with some that people were good enough to ask in advance.

Maria Devine: We’ve got some questions here that were submitted, so thank you, and while I’m doing this, if anyone else on the webinar wants to write their question in the Q&A, you can go ahead and we’ll read them afterwards. We’ll finish the interview section on time, but we’re happy to stay on and answer more questions as they come. And everyone who registered will receive a recording of the webinar along with a copy of the slides.

 So, the first couple of questions we have is about the succession process, which we have touched on, but got questions from Suzanne and Andrew. And they ask, how are you ensuring the long-term sustainability of the business beyond the founding generation?

Enda Brady: I think, Mickey has probably answered that one in that they’ve identified I think, Mickey, you can correct me here. They’ve identified the children that can do the different roles, and they’re not putting any set time frames on it, but they’re making sure that they have the expertise to step up when it comes to it. Would that be the¦ would that be the right way to summarize it, Mickey?

Michael O’Hehir: Yeah, 100%. So, I suppose, nothing formalized, but it is important, and you know, with a family business, like I’ve said earlier, and I suppose you didn’t touch on it, you know, when it’s family, you get more, you get above and beyond, right? And there will be friction when it’s close, so it’s very important that people have their own responsibilities, and their own areas of work. It’s all right for a few years, but when the business and when people get older, they need their own areas. Because, you know, Enda, when you have family, you might say things to family that maybe you wouldn’t say to people that work with you, so it’s really important that.  I wouldn’t change it for the world. I mean, family was everything. They really built a great business with us. But going forward, I’d like to see, whether they’re Enda’s or whether they’re my lads are coming into the business, or they’re already in it, they would have their own areas of work, their own responsibilities, and they’re all working for the one company as such. But it’s very important people have their own jobs and own responsibilities, rather than sitting on top of each other, really. So, we’ve nothing done formally, but it’s well underway.

Enda Brady: Very good, yeah. And never was there a truer word said that you would say things to family members you’d never say to another staff member.

Michael O’Hehir: Yes, that’s it.

Enda Brady: Sound Maria fire ahead there.

Maria Devine: Okay, the next couple of questions are about technology. So, we had, I’ll read a couple out together. Paul asks, has O’Hehirs Bakery made use of digital channels and or e-commerce? And Aisling asks, have any AI tools been introduced into the business, and if so, which ones?

Michael O’Hehir: Well, they’re probably talking to the wrong man here on, technology and online stuff, but I do know, like, we were, say, in around COVID time, and all that online business, we were developing an online cake app. So, we had just finished it when COVID just came in, we were so lucky with it. Now, that’s grown year on year, and we’re very proud of it, where you just pick up your mobile phone, you can order it your cake, and it’s click and collect. So, of course, we have a lot of online stuff like that. We’re increasing and improving our technology all the time. As regards any detail, I wouldn’t be able to explain it to you.

Enda Brady: That’s ok. I think you did say earlier on in the conversation, Mickey, that, you know, you have somebody responsible for marketing, you’d have a dedicated person for that, I think it’s Mark. And you do have a person that owns IT for you, so you have people in both positions, yeah. All right, Maria.

Maria Devine: Okay, the next one’s from Darragh, and he asks, what’s the pros and cons of organic growth, or growing through acquisitions?

Enda Brady: Yes, was it all organic growth, or was it buying acquisitions.

Michael O’Hehir: Yeah, I think the bulk of it was organic growth, yeah? Or 90% of it was. I suppose when we bought the couple of shops in Galway, that was from another company, so that was a quick, lift. We bought, I suppose, the bakery in Letterkenny, but that was only one standalone, and in turn, we moved the production back to Sligo, and we still have our shop, and we have a lot of other bits and pieces in Letterkenny. So, most of our business is organically grown.

Enda Brady: Thanks for the question, Darragh. I think Darragh’s saying, you know, saying there, if you had a choice going forward, would it mostly be organic growth or acquisitions? I think you’ve partially answered that, that when you had the choice to take on 20, you went for it. But that’s not to say you wouldn’t be doing acquisitions again, but you might be doing them in a planned way. Would that be fair to say?

Michael O’Hehir: Yeah, correct.

Enda Brady: Sound Maria, what’s the next one there?

Maria Devine: Mary asks, what is the most important in running a successful business?

Michael O’Hehir: That’s a hard one, no, wait till I see. Well, look, hard work, isn’t it? It’s commitment. It’s 7 days a week sometimes. I suppose it’s being honest, that people know, they can trust you, they’re giving you credit or whatever else. If people are joining you, that they know that they’re joining a good company. So, it’s all about reputation. I think if you’re being honest with everything, and you run your businesses honestly and upfront, it means a lot.

Enda Brady: That’s a big deal to make a decision around supplier payments, but then get in the car and meet every one of them face-to-face to say, here’s what’s happening, and here’s what we’re doing about it.

Michael O’Hehir: Yeah, I think there’s no way that they would have done that for us if they didn’t know us. They wouldn’t have, you know. So, I would like to think we have a good reputation like that. I think we treat all our people well, and I think it’s a combination of a lot of bits and pieces like that.

Enda Brady: That’s great, that’s great, Mickey.

Enda Brady: Any more, Maria? I think they’re the questions in advance, are they?

Maria Devine: Yeah, we’ve got some really positive comments come in, while you’ve been speaking. So, first one from John says, ‘Never heard Michael speak before, but could listen to him all day. What has driven you all these years, especially when things feel lost or like giving up?’

Michael O’Hehir: I get thick with it! So, it’s just a bit of staying power, I suppose. That’s our problem, you know, I suppose I’d be the same as a lot of other people in business, Enda, you’d know, and anybody that would ever play rugby or football, you know, you might get hammered, and you keep getting up again, and you keep going, right? So I’d like to think that I do the same in business. No matter what’s thrown at us, we take it on the chin, we move forward. And that’s what I think life is about, then. You know, of course there’s going to be downtime, of course there are going to be bad things happening, but I think if we stay focused and just keep moving. You know, you keep just after being knocked back, you keep getting back up. So, I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing, but .

Enda Brady: That’s a great thing. Yeah. That’s a great thing.

Maria Devine: And we have another question from Paul, who says, ‘Michael, it’s great to hear how you’ve grown the O’Hehir business and the hotels while remaining as a family business. My question for you is, how do you take a helicopter view of all the arms of the business?’

Michael O’Hehir: Yeah, well, I think I might have touched on it, so it’s really by visiting the places. I suppose anybody that would have worked so long in that business, you know when you go in, the air, you get the feel of the business, but a lot of it goes back to the accounts, knowing how a business operates. You know, like, I used to say to people, there’s a big difference in cash flow and profitability. What is it, sales is vanity, margin is sanity, and the only way you’ll know it is, if you have figures in front of you.

Maria Devine: Very good. That might lead into the next question, from Andrew who says, ‘Thanks, Michael and Enda. Great webinar. Michael, what advice would you give to a young entrepreneur thinking of setting up a business?’

Michael O’Hehir: Well, the way we started, maybe not, I wouldn’t advise like that, because we’re lucky enough, things went well. I do think you have to look at it now. Any sort of a business, if you like it, and if you like doing it, or if you’re interested in doing a business and setting it up, well, then you should go for it, I think. But just make sure you have things in place, and you have good supports around you, you know? So, for any young person, if they like the business and they’d like to get into it, check it out fully, take their time, but then have the supports around, whether it’s financial or whether it’s people around them. The both is badly needed when they get into the thick of it, you know?

Maria Devine: Very good. We’ve had a few questions about hiring. I’ll read a few of the comments out. What has worked best for Michael in terms of hiring really good staff? Comments that they find it difficult to find managers coming in from outside, and sort of blending into the business, and challenges of finding staff, for the bakery. So, just in terms of how you do that.

Michael O’Hehir: Yeah, so I’ll just go take the bakery for a minute. So, maybe years ago, the lack of bakers in the country was massive and we were increasing the size of our bakery. Also, in our kitchen business, the lack of chefs, and everybody knows there was a shortage. So what we decided was to break it down. When I was younger, and we went to Letterkenny, and we went to the different bakeries to see them, bakers were able to do everything. Now, what we’ve decided to do, and we’ve done the same in the kitchens, is break it down and just have people for different stations, so they do one thing really, really well. And we were able to bring people in, start them off, train them at one station, and then we have a lot of different stations, so it’s the same results you get. So that was in the bakery.

Also, we found, going back over the years, that if we were bringing in people from Poland or Latvia or that, the easiest way to bring them into Sligo, if they were bakers or anything, would be to have a room for them. Because then they wouldn’t have to have a deposit on an apartment or anything else. So we had rooms for them, you know, for the first 3 months until they got settled. That helped as well. 

As regards the bakery shops, and I think you’ll see from even the hotel, the bakery shops, the ATUs, we do our best to try to promote from within. If that’s not possible, we will bring them in maybe from outside. But, like, we will do a long interview. We’ll meet them more so for a casual, kind of a chat, more than anything else. And just to see, do they like us? Do we like them? Because, that’s the probably most important thing. They’d all have the experience, but whether we all can get on is the next phase of it. It’s not easy getting people in hospitality anymore, but there is a lot of good people out there for it. You just have to find them.

Maria Devine: Very good. I think the last question we have at the moment is, ‘Hi Michael, thanks for this morning. You spoke at the beginning about not having a mission or strategy. As you have grown, and you started to go through a more formal process for this, and if so, do you consider this worthwhile?’

Michael O’Hehir: 100%, yeah, you have to. And I wasn’t joking or anything like that, that’s the way we started the business, and if you look back to’84 , it was with my parents, you know, we said we’d give it a go, hopefully it went well, and it did go well. I think when we’re growing the business 100%, you need strategy, you need budgets, you need forecasts. You need that mission statement, where you want to go, what kind of people, what are your values, absolutely. So, they’re really, really important, because now there’s more than ourselves. We have to look after a lot of people, a lot of families out there, so we don’t want to be letting them down, so you gotta get it right, you know?

Maria Devine: Very good, thank you. That’s all the questions we have at the moment.

Enda Brady: That’s great. Listen, folks, Michael, thanks a million. Thanks a million for your openness today. Thanks a million for giving the time and for agreeing to do it. We really, really appreciate it. 

Folks, we would love to hear from you. If this sparks any question in your mind, and you’re a business owner, or you’re self-employed and you’d like someone to look at your situation and help you make the most of your financial position personally, we’d love to hear from you. That’s the website you can get in touch (www.iqf.ie).

We hope you found this valuable. Everybody’s going to get a copy of the recording, everybody who registered is going to get a copy of the recording tomorrow morning, and we’d really appreciate feedback. There’ll be a link in the email you get tomorrow to rate what you thought of this chat, so we’d really love it if you gave us feedback and a review. 

This is the second webinar in our 2026 series for business owners, and we’ll be announcing the next webinar very shortly. We’ve gone over time a little bit, but I think it’s very well worth it to hear what Mickey had to share with us. So listen, thanks a million for your time this morning, and goodbye.

Michael O’Hehir: Bye-bye

Enda Brady: Bye-bye.